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«SCOUTS-L COLD WEATHER CAMPING & KLONDIKE DERBYS Date: Tue, 31 Oct 1995 21:14:00 MST From: Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona ...»

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Bob Amick, EMT-B, Exploring Training Chair, Longs Peak Council, Boulder, CO From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Sat Nov 9 22:37:54 1996 Return-Path: @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpb@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA29451; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:37:54 -0500 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0234; Sat, 09 Nov 96 22:34:31 EST Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4172; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:34:30

-0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8006; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:38:47 -0600 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 3453 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:38:07 -0600 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3452; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:20:15 -0600 Received: from reg.seresc.k12.nh.us by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 08 Nov 96 14:20:11 CST Received: from godbout.tiac.net (p15.ts4.lowel.MA.tiac.com [207.60.164.112]) by reg.seresc.k12.nh.us (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA21224 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:23:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: 1.5.4.16.19961104070247.214f8b76@mail.HiWAAY.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: 32839587.4E12@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:18:15 -0500 Reply-To: mgodbout@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Sender: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU From: Marc Godbout mgodbout@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Part 3 - Food, Tips and tricks To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Status: RO

X-Status:

Winter Camping Part 3

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Food:

You need extra calories to keep your body warm, so leave your low-fat diet at home. Make sure you have lots of carbos. Oatmeal for breakfast and pasta for supper works well. Eggs and pancakes lose heat quickly and IMHO taste pretty bad cold, but bacon can be eaten cold. If you don’t cook it too crispy then any leftovers (yeah right -= leftovers of bacon?) can be snacked on during the day.

Lunches could be pepperoni and cheese on crackers. Peanut butter on Syrian bread.

Have plenty of snacks available. Granola bars, chocolate, and trail mix are great. Apples and oranges will turn into rocks, no matter what you keep them in.

I like melting butter in a pan and toasting bagels or english muffins in the butter. There’s a lot of energy there.

Have plenty of hot chocolate. This will be drunk any time someone is in camp. If you’ve got to have coffee, use decaf. Caffeine is a diuretic and you’ll need all the water you can get.

Make sure everyone has plenty of water. Dehydration leads to hypothermia. But leave your filters at home. They are pretty much useless when frozen and you could crack the filter element. Melt snow or boil water when you need to refill the bottles.

Cooking meat doesn’t seem to work very well. It’s hard to keep a big= frying pan hot enough to effectively brown any hamburger. If you’ve got to have meat in the spaghetti sauce, bring pepperoni and throw it in the sauce when heating that up.

Instant soups will go like crazy. Use your insulated mug to eat this, and you won’t need the hot chocolate for this meal/snack.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Other tips and tricks:

To keep boots from freezing up overnight, lie them on their sides beneath your sleeping bag under your butt with the soles sticking out.

Put one on each side of you. There should be enough heat escaping there to keep the frost out, plus the placement will help keep you from rolling of your mat.

Keep gloves, socks, and any of tomorrow’s clothes as will comfortably fit inside the sleeping bag. Any other clothes, jacket, sweater, whatever doesn’t fit, should be put under the bag. It’s much more comfortable to dress in pre-heated clothes and the added insulation doesn’t hurt.

Keep at least one water bottle in the sleeping bag, if it will fit and not leak. If you can’t, put it under your bag at the knees. All other wate= r bottles that don’t fit under your knees could be put in some of your extra wool socks. Also, heat the water up at night before you go to bed and put the filled bottles in your sleeping bag as you fulfill your nightly duties. Then when you get to bed, your bag will actually be warm.

Don’t forget the nightly duties. A full bladder requires more heat tha= n an empty one, plus getting up at 2:00 AM in sub-zero weather is absolutely no fun.

Carry and store water bottles upside down. Ice forms on the top of bodies of water first, so this helps keep ice from forming around the mouth. If you’re not carrying a water bottle, stick it in a spare sock or shove it in a snow bank, upside down, of course. Snow will insulate better than nothing.





If you’ve got a self-inflating mattress don’t roll it up with the val= ves closed. A frozen mattress valve is real hard to open.

When standing around eating, cooking, or whatever, stand on your mattress pad. When sitting, sit on your pad.

Keep active as much as possible. If you feel your feet freezing up, start getting the shakes, or if you see anybody else showing initial signs of hypothermia - go for a long, brisk walk/jog. Take the whole troop with you, because they may be feeling the same way, but are too =93cool=94 (there’s that pun again) to show it. Keep going until the s= igns go away.

Go for a night hike or play an active game just before you crawl in the bag. After you get in the bag, take a mouthful of water and eat something fatty like cookies. This gets the furnace started and helps keep it going throughout the night.

The standard 3-tub method of doing the dishes just doesn’t work in the extreme cold. Heat up some water and pour this in individual bowls to melt the leftover bit and pieces of food. Soak your utensils in this.

Then use a paper towel or even a snowball to scrub. Any cloth dishrag will freeze.

Bring extra everything. Stoves and lanterns will fail. Water bottles will freeze and crack. Things, like boys just behave differently in the cold.

Everyone on the trip should know the signs and treatment of hypothermia!!!

No cotton!!!!

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Sat Nov 9 22:43:04 1996 Return-Path: @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpd@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA00486; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:43:04 -0500 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8680; Sat, 09 Nov 96 22:39:09 EST Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4200; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:38:58

-0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8042; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:39:45 -0600 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 3449 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 20:39:05 -0600 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3448; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:19:19 -0600 Received: from reg.seresc.k12.nh.us by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 08 Nov 96 14:19:16 CST Received: from godbout.tiac.net (p15.ts4.lowel.MA.tiac.com [207.60.164.112]) by reg.seresc.k12.nh.us (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA21216 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:22:03 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: 1.5.4.16.19961104070247.214f8b76@mail.HiWAAY.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: 32839546.27B3@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 15:17:10 -0500 Reply-To: mgodbout@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Sender: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU From: Marc Godbout mgodbout@reg.seresc.k12.nh.us Subject: Re: Cold Weather Camping Part 2 - Other gear To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Status: RO

X-Status:

Winter Camping Part 2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Other gear:

--------------Sleeping bag:

No skimping here. Down works great, but if it gets wet it will lose all insulation value. For experienced, responsible, older, scouts (and scouters) this shouldn’t be a problem - just keep it dry. Plus, down i= s the most compressible material around. But boys will be boys, so I usually recommend some man-made fiber, such as LiteLoft, which is almost as compressible as down. A good bag will be expensive, but many gear stores will rent them. Construction is probably more important than filling. Things to check for are: a full length draft tube, if quilted

- make sure he inside seams are offset from outside seams, a full coverage hood, mummy construction. Another thing that helps out is to get a longer bag than necessary. That way you could stuff things that you’d like to keep=

warm during the night.

I personally use a layered technique, mostly because I don’t have the space and money for three different bags. My inside layer is my poly top and bottom with generously thick socks (I get cold feet at night), then I get in a vapor barrier made by wrapping a space blanket around myself.

Then I slip into an acrylic blanket bag my wife sewed up. I wear a wool hat and my bag is a +20F-rated down bag. The major problem with this is the time it takes to finally get in position. Without exaggeration, I believe that I squirm around for 10 - 15 minutes. Then again, all that activity generates heat, so maybe this is a good thing. This season I might try one of those emergency mylar bags instead of the space blanket. I could buy a vapor barrier liner, but they cost too much.

Another problem was that my system didn’t work so well at -5F. I was cold during the night. Not enough to keep me awake all night, but it was very uncomfortable. I think a thicker acrylic or wool blanket might do the trick.

--------------Mattress pad:

This is almost as important as the bag. The self-inflating or closed-cell foam type work pretty well. Stay away from any of those inflatable type, more suitable as floats in the pool. These allow air to move around under you and could actually help cool you off.

I recommend two pads when sleeping on the snow. More is warmer.

--------------Tents:

Don’t know much here because I haven’t used one in the winter, yet.

I’ve been told that the fiberglass poles have a tendency to crack, so you might want to stick to aluminum.

We’ve used quinzees (a type of snow-dome), dugloos (dig a hole and sleep under the stars), snow-kitchens, and scout-camp lean-tos. Out of all of these, I think the lean-tos are the coldest. We strung tarps around the bunks to cut down on drafts and the amount of air needing to be heated. Whatever you try, bring as many tarps as you can. Those blue, PVC, things work pretty well in extreme cold.

--------------Mess kit:

I use a plastic cereal bowl from the local Name-Your-Favorite-Mart. Get something thick, as extreme cold could cause it to crack. I don’t like the metal mess kits because they seem to allow the food to cool too quickly.

Also, keep it light colored. Chances are, you’ll be eating at least on= e meal, probably supper, in the dark, and a dark plate/bowl makes food disappear.

An insulated coffee mug, with lid, works great. Avoid those metal cups.

They transfer too much heat from the hot chocolate directly to the lips.

--------------Stoves:

Propane and butane have problems in the cold. They start losing pressure below freezing and it’s pretty much gone by the time you get t= o 0F. We stick with the white gas stoves during winter time.

--------------Lights:

Lanterns should also be white gas. I’ve seen batteries die out at extreme cold, too. Candles always work. Flashlights should be kept on your person even during the day, because of the battery problem.

From @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Sat Nov 9 22:46:35 1996 Return-Path: @pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id WAA01218; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:46:35 Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpb@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by server1.capaccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA81338; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:40:12 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 0248; Sat, 09 Nov 96 22:42:42 EST Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4262; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 22:42:41



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